Pathfinder readthough – Chapter 9: Magic
A retroactive (and oft-repeated) introduction: After an actual-play hiatus where I was mostly writing and playtesting for GURPS. I was invited to play in a Pathfinder game, and after a few sessions, it was time to buy the book and learn the rules! I decided to try and read the Pathfinder rules cover-to-cover and see what inspiration strikes, for good or ill!
This is a compilation of the links to read-throughs of Pathfinder-related material
Pathfinder Core Rulebook
0. Prelude
1. Introduction
2. Races
3a. Classes (Barbarian – Monk)
3b. Classes (Paladin – Wizard)
4a. Skills (Appraise – Heal)
4b. Skills (Intimidate – Use Magic Device)
5. Feats
6. Equipment
8a. Combat (Part 1)
8b. Combat (Part 2)
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Casting Spells
Well, first you have to pick one. Knowing it is only enough if you’re one of those classes that can cast any spell they know at any time (subject to the limits on number of spells of a particular type they can cast per day). If you can’t just make stuff up that way, you must memorize, in advance, a number of spells based on your level and class. You can memorize multiple copies of a spell (again, subject to the limits on number of spells at a given level), but for these types of spellcasters, knowing “Wrigley’s Destroying Club” isn’t enough – you must memorize it ahead of time.
Concentration (and Distraction)
Most disruptions simply trigger a check with a DC proportional to the amount of disruption, and each disruption method has its own calculation. Check the handy table on p. 207, or the Pathfinder Reference Document, of course.
The key bit here is the (brief) description of what spell bonus types stack and don’t. Dodge bonuses, circumstance bonuses (?), and racial bonuses seem to stack, but most other bonuses and penalties do not, and you only take the worst one. I could see this particular rule being roundly ignored. It’s equal opportunity both ways – since penalties stack as well – and would simplify game play.
Also here is a quick discussion of resurrection, which is the re-merging of the departed soul (literally departed – it goes on vacation on some other plane of existence, and you’re leaving it a voice mail to come back to work) with the body of the fallen. If he doesn’t want to come back, he doesn’t have to. And if enemies want to keep him away, there are ways of either trapping or warding the soul . . . or you can just filch the body, since you need it for the spell!
Multiple Spell Effects
This entire section made me want to dig out my +3 Red Pen of Editing, and write “stop being so wishy-washy” over and over. This little section is in rather desperate need of a few examples. Generally, if you’re providing different types of effects (like a DEX buff and a STR buff, or Enlarge Person and a CON boost or something) things probably go to plan. You can’t give multiple stacking spells of the same type: Two +1 boosts to STR are just +1, and a +1 and a +2 only gives you the benefit of the larger one. Finally, if you cast a series of spells with similar effects, usually it’s the most recent one that applies.
It also throws you under the bus with nice vague advice like “sometimes a spell can make another spell irrelevant!” Gee, thanks. This section is basically some vague GM guidelines, and there aren’t many nuggets here.
Spell Descriptions
At over 100 pages, Chapter 10 is the largest chapter in the book, and it’s “nothing” but spell after spell. So in Chapter 9, we break down the content of the spell descriptions, and what they mean.
School of Magic
Most belong to one of eight schools.
- Abjuration: protection spells. Some such spells, especially if multiple spells are laid on top of each other, are detectable by Perception.
- Conjuration: Movement and alteration of living creatures and some objects, I think. There are subschools which are pretty descriptive. Calling spells brings a critter to you from another plane. Creation forms magical constructs that disappear when the spell is over. Healing conjurations make you all better. Summoning brings a pre-existing creature or object to you, which goes back to where you sent it when killed or dismissed. Finally, Teleportation spells are when you’ve got to move it move it, and instantly transport things from place to place.
- Divination: See secrets, know the future (the GM’s bane), find hidden things.
- Enchantment: Mind-affecting spells that change how the subject views you (charms), or force behavior (compulsions).
- Evocation: boom sticks. Creating and manipulating magical energy, often in highly visible ways to cause damage.
- Illusion: deceiving the senses of others. There are several kinds of illusions, such as figments (false sensations), glamers (glamour? altering how something looks, tastes, feels, etc.), and others. You’ll generally treat an illusion as real unless you take the time to interact with it, whereupon careful study might reveal and dispel it – that’s a saving throw.
- Necromancy: Dead things, Mikey. Dead things. The undead, manipulating the forces of life and death.
- Transmutation: Changing the properties of a thing or person from one form to another. This can inlcude polymorph to change your own body or that of another. There’s a very large block of text here on polymorph, so if that’s going to be your thing, you’d best read it.
I will have to admit that at this point, my brain just started shouting out “my God, the tedium!” I know that these rules are core to a caster’s mission in life. How they prepare spells, what the limits are to casting, how they’re recorded in the spellbook, etc.
But the writing is terribly terribly dull. For a book filled with iconic characters, I really wish they’d have used them more to provide flavor and examples.
Still:
Preparing Spells
You must rest for 8 hours, and then take 15 – 60 minutes to prepare your slots. Somewhere buried in there (Prepared Spell Retention) it gives what is a pretty good explanation for this “memorization” thing. You are actually effectively partially casting, and then “hanging” the spell, subject to finalization and execution later.
I should note that the new(ish) GURPS magic system introduced in Monster Hunters – Ritual Path Magic – has something very, very like this. You take the time and energy to cast a spell into a focus, called a charm or dweomer, and then when it’s time to cast the spell, you crush or otherwise activate the item. Spells can take a long time to prepare, and the ability to generate a monster (ahem) spell repertoire is limited to your magic power and really how much time your friends will let you spend muttering incantations before you head out to kill stuff.
If you’re playing a wizard or sorcerer – or any spellcaster, since the rules for Divine spellcasting are best summarized as ‘exactly the same thing, with this small handful of changes – you will want to read these rules a few times, and discuss them with your GM to see if he has any house rules to (hopefully) smooth things along in game.
Short version though. You rest for the night (8 hours), you spend about an hour to prepare stuff. If you’re disrupted in your rest you either need to make it up or prepare fewer spells. It seems to take roughly 60-90 seconds per spell regardless of level (about an hour, maximum of 40-60 spells total memorized, ish).
You can leave spell slots open and prepare them later. If you are facing a journey where you can make frequent stops of about an hour, this might be the best way to ensure you don’t leave yourself utterly without the ability to be flexible. It still takes at least 15 minutes to get this done, and you may not abandon a previously memorized spell in this process. You may only fill an empty slot.
Spellbooks
The rules put a lot of thought into the wizard’s spellbook, which is exactly 100 pages, no more, no less. Each spell, from zero-level to 9th level, is one page. Magical writing is a sort of personal arcane shorthand that has as much to do with how your character interprets magic as with any sort of formalism. Thus, it takes a bit to unravel another wizard’s shorthand, which is why it takes so darn long to read them.
It’s a neat trick – DC 20 + the spell level.
You can also prepare a spell from another person’s book, but you have to make a Spellcraft check (DC 15+level) to do it. Copying a spell is a similar check, but it costs a bunch of money: square the spell’s level x 10 gp (5 gp flat cost for 0-level spells). You must be writing in solid gold ink or something – or the ink itself is magical. Still, as they say in my neck of the woods, that’s ‘spendy.’
You can sell a spellbook as loot for half the gp cost of all the spells it contains. The spellbook of a powerful caster that might have 4 spells per level x all 10 possible levels of spells is worth about 5700gp. Not bad as treasure.
Divine Spells
Pretty much just like Arcane spells, but you prepare them at a time of your choosing instead of right when you wake up. Also, any spell slot of appropriate level or higher can be used to cast a healing (or inflict harm) type spell, so you don’t need to prepare those in advance, per se, but you will need to decide what you need to give up as you go. This also works for summon nature’s ally if you’re a druid.
Special Abilities
While this chapter is critical to understanding and playing spell-users in Pathfinder, it’s quite a slog to get through. Still, while there are many rules, there seem to be relatively few special cases, so once you assimilate the laws of magic, so to speak, you should be good to go for the rest of your Pathfinder career – unless other books that aren’t the Core Rulebook change that!
In ten+ years of playing 3.x/Pathfinder I have never seen Counterspelling used.
The bonus stacking rules are pretty clear once you get used to them. They just aren't about similarity of _effect_. It's all about class of the bonus, equivalent to a Gurps Power Modifier. Bonuses of the same class (such as Enhancement) almost never stack. The major exception is Dodge bonuses.. Also bonuses without a given class. Equivalent a "Wild" Gurps PM.
So an Enhancement bonus does stack with a Morale bonus. and both will stack with a Holy Bonus and so on. The highly desirable spells with bonuses in categories beyond the very common Enhancement class are pretty rare though.
While Pathfinder spell description language is technical and dull itt also tends to be technically precise. Once you learn the codewords there are few questions about any spell effect.
Can either of you comment on why Counterspelling is never used? I've been trying to imagine how it would work properly and I'm at a lost. Maybe you can provide some insight on how it could be fixed?
There are two issues. The first is the part about having the same spell prepared as the one being cast at you. That requires an impractical level of foresight. You can get around this by using a dispel Magic as your Counterspell..
The second is more fundamental. It is the imbalance between offense and defense in D&D based games. To Counterspell you have to go before your opponent and then take a Ready action (equivalent to Gurps wait). If you take the Ready and then use Dispel Magic as a Couterspell. you've used one of your actions and spells to negate one of his. This only puts you closer to mutual exhaustion and not really victory.
Problem is that on your turn instead of the ready you could have just cast one of your spells at the enemy. There are a few spells that are effectively Save of Die (or lose the combat at least).. This is sometimes questionable since if he does Save you usually gain nothing.. It can lead to spectacular victory if he fails though.
Or you could cast a spell that does HP damage.. Combat really is over when one side has no more HP. D&D can be very simple that way.
Even for a defensive specialist like an Abjuror you could have taken that Turn/spell to negate Fireballs by castina a protective spell on your fighter before he charges or to negate the spell your enemy cast last time or to de-buff your enemy.
De-buffing with Dispel Magic is usually very important at mid-to-high levels. Adventure Paths often give level bosses an unrealistic amount of foresight and time to cast protective and buffing spells on themselves. At the climax of one Path the boss was AC41 and it was almost all protections about 4 layers deep.
So the second problem is simply fundamental to the game. You can use your Turn and Spell to prevent your enemy from hurting you _once_ or take other actions that protect you or your party for more than one turn or simply ill the fool.
Counterspelling is only slightly more rare than Fighting Defensively or even actual use of Combat Expertise(instead of using as a prereq to better feats). D&D just rewards offense over defense.
I usually comment on Google+, but the discussion here is more interesting. In truth I have seen fighting defensively happen all the time in D&D 3.5E Pathfinder. Usually it is a way for a seriously wounded character to try and hold on so they can be bailed out and is far more useful at low levels. At high levels, it is possible to increase AC so much that the arms race results in pretty much automatic hits unless your AC is stellar.
Counterspelling is a terrible mechanic. The best case scenario (dispel magic) gives you a chance to stop one spell. Or you could use it to dispel existing buffs. Nobody (except possibly a Sorcerer) is going to have many of these spells and if the opposition doesn't cast a spell them you wasted your action for the turn. If you could "borrow" next rounds action for an emergency counterspell then it might get used.
As for the use the same spell approach, that is hopelessly bad as a mechanic. If the spell is a lethal attack spell why not hit first with it? If it isn't, who is wasting a turn to counter it.
They would have been better off deleting the mechanic.